Spelling and Grammer

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Slippy Tin
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Spelling and Grammer

Post by Slippy Tin » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:04 pm

Am I alone in my loathing of "text" writing?
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Re: Spelling and Grammer

Post by Renfield » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:55 pm

Slippy Tin wrote:Am I alone in my loathing of "text" writing?

I totally agree - my friends know when a text is from me because I type all words in full or use proper abbreviations.
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Post by Helena » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:31 pm

No, you're not alone.

The future of the English language worries me!

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Post by pandammonium » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:08 pm

I assume that was a deliberate misspelling in the subject, Slippy? :twisted:

As a professional linguist (well, learner-linguist), I have to be descriptive, not prescriptive, which is what you are being. I'm not saying I'm not prescriptive - Eccles and Slippy know I am - but the English Language has always been changing and evolving over the years. Imagine if it didn't - we might still be speaking in Old English (what used to be called Anglo-Saxon until the 19th century)!

Saying that, I think it a great shame when, say, word A and word B have subtlely different meanings, but people use B instead of A, so that the difference becomes negligible. This makes the language less expressive.

The fact that we do have so many words with slightly different meanings comes as a result of language change. England was invaded and occupied by people like the French, the Norse etc., so, if you have a region in which there are speakers of Old English using one word for X and speakers of French using another, what would typically happen is that one word would become dominant and the other would either die out or its meaning subtlely change.

Also, remember that, before the invasions by Germanic tribes (Jutes, Angles, Saxons and Frisians), Britons used languages belonging to the Celtic language.

Unfortunately [that is a speaker-oriented adverb, before you start ;)], I don't have any handy examples to illustrate any of the above points, but I could probably find some if pushed.

I do, however, find it appalling that children write in "text-message-ese"* in exams and, on top of that, find themselves marked down for it. Quite right too, in my book!

I'll tell you what else I hate: the use of excessive punctuation at the end of a sentence!!!!!!! Especially when the sentence is turned into an interrogative form, when clearly, it is no such thing??????? I will occasionally use a "?!" combination of I am using an interrogative form but in an exclamatory manner. Excessive use of ellipsis annoys me to, although I might be guilty of this at times... no-one said I couldn't be a hypocrite!

I will now step down from my soap-box and give it to someone else for a while. :D

* Newly-coined word by me :)
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Post by Slippy Tin » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:02 am

What's a vowel between friends? I do have an excuse... I'm schwa-blind!
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Post by dave mc » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:39 am

I think it's becoming obvious now.............. we are the 38+ age group. :wink: We were probably the last generation who were taught how to spell, use grammar, when to punctuate etc. etc.
This goes back to the idiots in the late 70's early 80's who tried to "modernise" the schooling process, and teaching, and turn us all into entrepeneurs who only needed a filofax, a mobile phone and a bit of drive and we would all be instantly successful!
What about being taught how to write, using the double line paper, that enabled you to learn about lower and upper case whilst learning "real" (joined up) writing.
We had to learn about ten or twenty words each week, for a spelling test we would have every friday morning. I get the feeling that today's schools wouldn't dare have a spelling test in case it upset some E.U directive or P.C group who would warn it deprived children of being able to express themselves :roll:
Kids love to learn, if it's done properly, and it's fun for them, yes even maths and spelling. I know I have been teaching kids Karate for nearly 15 years and my lot love to learn new things.

Oh! I could go on for hours.........................

TTFN :D
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Post by pandammonium » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:05 pm

dave mc wrote:I think it's becoming obvious now.............. we are the 38+ age group. :wink:


Ooh! Speak for yourself - I'm nowhere near 40! :P

It was actually Samuel Johnson's A Dictionary of the English Language finished in 1755 that started the ball rolling on prescriptivity. After they got the lexicon to start being treated systematically, they started on grammar. There was Ben Jonson's grammar book to help foreigners learn English published in 1640 and John Wallis' grammar book published in 1653, which was written in Latin, obviously. Johnson copied off Wallis and inserted a brief section on grammar in his dictionary.

Of course, none of them could agree on what proper grammar was. :roll:

(Why can't this be one of my essay titles?!)

Paraphrased from Crystal, David (2003) The Cambridge Encyclopedia[sic] of The English Language 2nd Edition Cambridge: Cambridge University Press
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Post by Kingfisher » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:23 pm

A text message should be spelt in full with all appropriate punctuation. This really annoys my sister...

ps - I'm nowhere near 40 either!

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Post by dave mc » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:49 pm

Oops :oops: Sorry young 'uns

It's just that you don't seem to find many people under 35 who can be bothered to write things proper like what we does :roll:
It's all too easy to write in "text"


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p.s please don't correct my grammar................... that's meant to be irony - innit like :wink:
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Post by pandammonium » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:07 pm

I am aware of the irony 8)

I personally find it harder to write in text-message-ese cos my phone does that T9 thing and I don't know what half the abbreviations are. Not that I'd want to do them. Sometimes I accidentally miss a capital letter for I or someone's name mid-sentence (the phone does it itself for starts of sentences). If I'm running out of character buffer, I'll miss out one of the spaces between sentences and/or determiners out of DPs, depending on how much I want to say. I don't like it though! :roll:

Oh, but do you know, I hate it when people use innit to mean anything other than a contraction of isn't it. That so annoys me, as does that usage of so, which I keep finding myself using. Grr. It's from Friends, isn't it?
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Post by Slippy Tin » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:30 pm

Thanks, Pandy, your last post has kept my special red pen real busy! :twisted:
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Post by pandammonium » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:40 pm

It's written in dialect :P
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Post by Slippy Tin » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:47 pm

Takes more than one person to make a dialect. :twisted:
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Post by pandammonium » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:00 pm

Ok, then. It was written in idiolect. :P :P
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Post by Slippy Tin » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:05 pm

pandammonium wrote:Ok, then. It was written in idiolect. :P :P

Does that mean we can start calling you Nell?
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